Nothing in this blog can be believed. If you think that anything in this blog is true or factual, you'll need to verify it from another source. Do you understand? No? Then read it again, and repeat this process, until you understand that you cannot sue me for anything you read here. Also, having been sucked into taking part in the mass-murder of more than 3 million Vietnamese people on behalf of U.S. Big Business "interests", I'm as mad as a cut snake (and broke) so it might be a bit silly to try to sue me anyway...

Tuesday, December 27, 2005

Jesus was a communist...

I thought I had Jesus nicely sorted out in my own head. Now it seems I have to redefine him yet again. Drat.

I had convinced myself that Jesus was a lefty rising up against the capitalist Jews of his time. In my naïve way, I had this mean that he was rejecting Judaism and I figured that his Jewish followers (to whom he was the Messiah), had hijacked his teachings and corrupted them to conform to their beliefs, thus giving rise to the Jewish sect known to us as the Christians.

I quite liked this theory.

Then my Google bumped into Manfred Davidmann whilst I was seeking support for the theory that Christianity was a Jewish sect. And I got a whole lot more than I bargained for. It seems that I was right about Jesus being a communist, but his communism comes from the Torah. In other words, that the Torah had taught communistic ideas for a long time before Jesus came along. Davidmann argues that Judaism had become corrupted (by Hillel) just prior to Jesus's time and that Jesus was trying to bring Judaism back on track. Davidmann further claims that Paul corrupted Jesus's teachings and that Matthew tried to correct this.

So, if Davidmann is right, it seems to me that Jesus was a follower of the Shammai (communist) school of thought at a time when Judaism had become dominated by the Hillel (capitalist) school of thought. It seems also, that Paul was a follower of Hillel and Matthew a follower of Shammai. My reading of things is that eventually Hillel's evil influence corrupted not just Judaism as a whole, but Jesus's teachings (Christianity) as well.

And the rest, as they say, is history...

If you want to get more into this, read this, and also this.

The Rev. Albert Edward Smith also thought of Jesus as a communist. As did Reagan Youth. It's not a new idea. Just a good idea...

I'm off to bed now...


Blogger chumpsrock said...

I was born Christian, and college philosophy made me conclude Utilitarianism. But hey, Communism is the next best thing, right?

Cheers & well wishes, Gerry.

December 28, 2005 6:28 PM  
Blogger Gerry said...

By communism I did not mean the violent, totalitarian Marxist or Maoist kinds. I meant the communism embedded in the Torah laws. Jesus took this communism and added pacifism. Communism + Peaceful People Power. Whoa! No wonder the imperialist Romans, and the capitalist Hillelites who by then had Judaism in their firm but corrupt grip, decided to take Jesus out.

Best wishes to you too, Rocker, and indeed to all of the readers of this blog.

December 28, 2005 7:28 PM  
Blogger GreenSmile said...

Wow, Gerry, I had not encounterd a mapping of the ancient [and we are told generally civil] diverging and debating between the school of Hillel and the school of Shammai onto capitalist/communist ideology.

That the two schools had a long history of comming to different interpretations and promoting ethical advice with distinct differences of focus is well known to students of the development of rabinic judaism. As important as the divisions may be and the chance that one is right and the other wrong, the people I study with consider it even more important that the arguments of both sides, the debates themselves come down to us preserved in Talmud. Sometimes you have to read Talmud closely to even form a sense of which opinion held sway or was deemed to have greater merit. There was none of this "the winner writes the loser out the history".

I clearly gotta go look into this since the way I recall it, one chief generalization of the difference between the two schools was that Hillel was more lenient and Shammai more strict and literal. [don't quote me!]

December 29, 2005 1:44 AM  
Blogger Gerry said...

GreenSmile, I probably should not even have an opinion about any of this. I'm coming at this not as a serious scholar but more like a reporter in search of a scoop, acting on hunches and clues.

Reading Davidmann's piece, I noted the communistic nature of the Pentateuch's laws and how Jesus's intention was to stress the importance of observing these laws.

I was not aware until this reading that Jesus's teachings were more in line with Shammai's (on the subject of wealth) i.e. anti-capitalist, anti-establishment, than Hillel's (who became the president of the Sanhedrin), i.e. an apologist for pro-capitalist, pro-establishment viewpoints. And so I read Davidmann's piece as meaning that Jesus was horrified by Hillel's sycophancy towards the rich and the Romans, and that he was trying to argue for a return to a stricter application of the laws of the Pentateuch, especially those relating to wealth i.e. a return to a communistic way of life.

As a lay reader of all of this, I found this link interesting as well.

Other Jewish websites dealing with Shammai and Hillel seem to be quite vilificatious of Shammai and praising of Hillel, but given that they were written by Hillelites who dominate the Jewish faith at this time, I see this as nothing more than anti-Shammai propaganda.

If it is true that Shammai was leaning more towards a communistic way of life and Hillel had sold out to the imperialist and capitalist establishment (this being seen within the Hillel school as Hillel's "more easy-going nature"), then Jesus's, Paul's, and Mathew's agendas can clearly be seen and juxtaposed. And it explains the subsequent pro-establishment, pro-capitalist revisionism which has apparently corrupted Jesus's teachings. It also explains the hypocrisy of the priesthood through the ages. It would also mean that the Jewish faith, whilst it remains in the grip of Hillelites, is corrupt as well.

I think the whole thing stinks to high heaven. I think that's the scoop.

In any case, nothing can redeem the Jewish, Christian or Muslim faiths until they erase the clearly misogynistic rubbish taught by the early Jews and which has subsequently poisoned both the Christian and the Muslim faiths as well.

And then there's this whole G-d thing! Don't get me going about that!!! :-)

December 29, 2005 3:37 PM  
Blogger Jenni said...

Ah, Gerry, trying to complicate my already complicated religious life, are you? :)

Seriously though, this was some good food for thought. I'm not sure where I come down on it yet. I'll have to mull it over a bit and get back to you.

December 29, 2005 4:19 PM  
Blogger Davo said...

Perhaps we should call it 'communalism'? Anyway, this 'season' has allowed me a few days of 'respite' from economic imperatives to have a bittuva think, and look around. It seems to me that most of the northern hemisphere 'religions' are structured around the political notion of 'god kings', or rulers who need the assistance of some 'outside god' to help 'rule' increasingly diverse and 'unruly' nations. From time immemorial, tribes have existed with the idea of 'alpha male' to supply the material needs, and 'shamans' to try to explain the 'inexplicable'. We mustn't forget that when all this 'religious' stuff began, knowlege outside of the 'tribal area' was extremely limited. These days we have much more 'information'. So much so that it is difficult to 'make sense of it all'.

It would, I think, be beneficial to read this
It is a fairly long 'page' detailing early civilisation and 'philosophical' beliefs in what we now call 'the Middle East'. (which also include areas such as the now Afghanistan, and Pakistan). It also explains why I might bring the name Zoroaster or Zaruthustra into discussions from now on, as (a) most of the northern hemisphere religions seem to be based around the philosophy and (b) it is all about 'personal responsibility' - no sexism required.

December 29, 2005 7:55 PM  
Blogger chumpsrock said...

Great scoop, Gerry - and I think you're on to something. Maybe now isn't the time, but I'd be interested to read your thoughts on a 'second coming' - incorporating your scoop of course.

December 30, 2005 7:51 AM  
Blogger Ron said...

Hi Gerry,

You might find Liberation Theology of interest.

December 30, 2005 10:20 AM  
Blogger Gerry said...

Jenni, Jesus was a leftie pacifist just like us. Get used to it. :-)

Davo, what could be more communal than commune-ism? I agree with much of what you say. Thanks for the link. Your conversion to Zoroasterism seems to be proceding apace. :-)

Rocker, I have no thoughts at all about a second coming. I think Jesus was just a man. Just a slob like one of us (apologies to Joan Osbourne). He may have been a tad more self-aware than most of us, that's all...

Ron, yeah, if I were a Catholic, or even a Christian, I would probably be right into Liberation Theology. As I said - Jesus was a communist... There are more lies, political rhetoric and superstitious crap in the Bible than there is truth. And then there are the moral rules - to try to live by four-thousand-year-old moral rules these days is so laughable it doesn't even bear thinking about. Religious adherants are in dire need of psychotherapy, in my book. But religions have so much power they must be dealt with the same way one deals with other powerful political influences and that is to ignore them and focus entirely on educating their brainwashed sheep. That's the only show in town... They'll kill you for it, but what the heck, there's always reincarntion... ;-)

December 31, 2005 3:32 AM  
Blogger Davo said...

Conversion? Hah! just looking around. "reincarnation" has a better chance of social impact. i.e if you behave badly in this life, ya come back as frog, toad, slug or worm and have to start again.

"chrestianity" made the mistake of "ultimate redemption". i.e if ya behave badly in this life, just say 3 hail marys, and ya end up in 'heaven'. same with the mahommedan dickheads.

December 31, 2005 4:17 PM  
Blogger Gerry said...

if you behave badly in this life, ya come back as frog, toad, slug or worm and have to start again

Davo, that's not how understand it to work at all. As I understand it, whatever "bad things" you do in this life, if you have not fully understood the wrongness of these things, similar "bad things" will be done to you in your next life, ad infinatum, until you fully understand the wrongness of these actions.

Similarly with awareness (the opposite to ignorance), one continues to come back to be dealt situations which contain lessons in awareness until one has become fully enlightend.

Enightened ones also return to teach others.

As you can tell, I'm fully enlightend and only come back here to teach you idiots. ;-)

January 01, 2006 8:27 AM  
Blogger GreenSmile said...

I just came across the work of an expat Australian, recently deceased, who might shake this argument up a bit:

January 05, 2006 10:29 AM  
Blogger Matthew said...

Another link for you Gerry, this one concerns Terry Eagleton's book on "Was Jesus A Revolutionary?":

I'm not afraid of Christ - I just think the churches suck, too ritualistic and full of false prophecy = false ideologies of wealth and power.

"The meek shall inherit the earth".

That's why I love your blog so much Gerry - thanks for the book ideas!

December 28, 2007 2:24 PM  
Blogger Matthew said...

Jesus Christ Gerry!

My link is way too long!

I'll try again:

I wish I'd spend some time learning html like davo!

Oh, if the Jews are right - does that mean that Fred Nile and George Pell go to hell?

I should think they would anyway. That's where most Islamophobics belong!

December 28, 2007 2:36 PM  
Blogger Tom Usher said...

Hello Gerry,

Jesus is a communist. I'd like to create a network of those who agree.

Would you be so kind as to read the linked post and perhaps leave a comment?

I've been writing about this for a number of years, but my site has attracted mainly naysayers and the silent on this issue so far. It would be beneficial for those who agree that Jesus is a communist to network together. We could present the beginnings of a united front that would offer a countervailing message to the prevailing capitalist and false-Christian, self-styled conservative Republican viewpoints.

God bless,

Tom Usher

July 10, 2008 5:25 PM  
Blogger Gerry said...

Tom, I'll be happy to leave a comment on your site.

July 10, 2008 5:57 PM  
Blogger MoonfreaK-Sebastian said...

Thanks for the blog man.
I've felt alone in my opinion on this matter, now I know I'm not alone.

It has always annoyed me how religious people ignore the leftie side of Jesus.

Jesus Was A Commusit

September 26, 2008 6:43 PM  

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